Episode 91: DBA Tools

Episode 91: DBA Tools

Episode 91: DBA Tools 560 420 Carlos L Chacon

We all want an easy button.  It is human nature.  We heard quite a bit about how easy PowerShell will make everything, but for those of us who aren’t programmers, it can be a bit intimidating to get started.  Luckily for us, we have what is shaping up to be the closest thing to an easy button for DBAs I have found for PowerShell tools from the folks at dbatools.io.  We invite some of the team to chat with us about their tool, how they got started and the types of problems they are looking to solve.

In this episode, Chrissy will be talking about how DBA Tools started from just being a simple migration tool until it became a useful tool solving various SQL related issues.  The team will discuss the other various situations where DBA Tools can really be helpful and how they manage contributions from over 30 people which leads us to talk about GitHub, the open source community, and their experiences in updating versions of DBA Tools and how they encourage contributors in the project.

Chrissy, Rob, Constantine, and Aaron were super excited to talk with us and we loved their energy and think you will enjoy this episode.

 Episode Quote

“The features that are now inside of DBA tools, honestly, I would describe them as really awesome.” – Constantine
“I promised you this is the best code ever used and that you will ever have.” – Aaron
“It is important to us that people do feel welcomed and that their codes gets merged in.” – Chrissy

Listen to Learn

  • The tools the dbatools team has put together
  • How the team goes about deciding what gets into the code
  • Examples of how this makes PowerShell more accessible
  • The challenges of having a community tool
Chrissy LeMaire

on Twitter
MVP Profile

Rob Sewell

on Twitter
SQL Server Central

Constantine Kokkinos


Aaron Nelson

Channel 9

About Chrissy LeMaire

Chrissy describes herself as a Cajun living in Belgium and a SQL Server DBA and PowerShell MVP with nearly 20 years of experience.  She is also the colead for the SQL PASS PowerShell Virtual Chapter and lead for the Belgian PowerShell User Group.  A fan of Linux and Open Source since I was first introduced them back in the 90’s, right around the time I moved to California to work in tech and has worked with PowerShell since 2005.

Carlos: Awesome, well today we are in for a real treat. We have the DBA tools team or “the brain child” of that project here in the studio with us today. So, we want to say, “Hello to you all!” This is probably the biggest group we ever had on the podcast so we are excited about that.

Chrissy: You are welcome.

Carlos: The more the merrier and we are going to prove that today. And so I guess I’ll kick it off with you Chrissy. Why don’t you tell us a little about these projects, how it got started and then we can kind of go around and well go from there.

Chrissy: Alright, so DBA tools actually didn’t start out how it is now. Initially way back in 2014 I created a bunch of migration commands and I made a little project on Github called SQL Migration, and then I started adding a couple of things like get SQL Server key or dug into the registry and it grab that information, and then I just kept adding more and overtime I realized that it can be more than just a migration tool so I called it DBA tools and then I just started marketing it that way as a general Power Shell tool for DBA’s and it really took off from there.

Carlos: All of you, maybe Rob you want to jump in? When you got involved with the project were you looking at it from a migration prospective?

Rob: Absolutely not. I’ve always been a SQL and Power Shell person so Chrissy and I got together and created this SQL collaborative Github collection which is where DBA tools lives on Github and obviously I knew her from partial conference and from SQL conferences and so we got together and start working from there on.

Steve: So Rob, how long after the original work that Chrissy had done was it that you got involve with the project?

Rob: So Chrissy, when did it change from being migrations to being DBA tools? I’m not sure about the exact date of that.

Chrissy: So the official, I think that I saw its birthday was sometime around September 2015 as when I changed the name of the module and then really everything in April of 2016 I registered the domain. In doing that I wanted to make it more approachable for DBA’s and for non developers because Github is not the place for people who are kind of apprehensive about Power Shell and so from there we started Slack. And I would have to say that that was about the time that it really started to take off whenever we started the SQL community Slack channel. So the first command that was introduce by the community was Claudio Silvia he is from Portugal and he gave us expense SQL T Log responsibly and then the command after that was whenever Rob contributed remove SQL database safely and that was around April or May of 2016.

Carlos: Ok. Well, I think it would be worth kind of noting here because Rob kind of mentioned that he was a Power Shell person so really quickly let’s go through and kind of talk about what were your expertise, how kind of you got involve with the project and kind of where you were coming from? So Constantine, you actually want to start it for us?

Constantine: Yeah sure actually I had almost no Power Shell experience. I came from a DBA’s stand point and I work as a production DBA. And honestly, the reason why I saw the kind of interest in DBA tools and why I was interested in it was because I didn’t have that experience and the migration videos, the intros that Chrissy had put together were so good in such a small package that I said “I need to learn this!” This absolutely calls me to learn Power Shell more than anything I have ever before really. So I had a lot of T-SQL experience. I had programmed silly things in pure SQL and I saw this and went, “I want to throw that all on the trash and replace it with this.”

Carlos: Ok that’s interesting. So you’ve talked about migration and kind of how it got started. You still feel like this is primarily a migration tool?

Constantine: I don’t actually and I think that’s part of why it is increasing adoption is because you said earlier with the whole, “Thanks but no thanks.” In reality for a large portion of the DBA tools existence, Chrissy has been extremely accepting of what those DBA tools do. We’ve had a lot of conversations about what are we really trying to solve here. What problems are we solving? Do we go beyond that? Where does that lay? I think one of the benefits of DBA tools, as we’ve said as long as it‘s really is solving a DBA problem it probably belongs in DBA tools and that why a lot of people who don’t have all of the experience to contribute their individual pieces and make it better.

Rob: Is that anything that will help make DBA life easier and that isn’t something like to be provided by Microsoft through the partial SQL Server module. So we won’t build at database user or these who generic commands will do more complex useful things in that.

Carlos: Ok. How would you describe some of the features that are now inside of DBA tools then?

Constantine: Well honestly, I would describe them as really awesome. I mean, that’s a very basic thing. But the reality is, one of the things we started to deal with and kind of struggle with but also find good solutions for, is the idea that we have a ton of Power Shell commands here doing a ton of different things. And so some of our big contributors and Slack have actually put together some in browser things and also some Power Shell base help things if you were more into that to help you narrow down on keywords or related pieces. You know Power Shell has some pieces to help you with that but again we are not really targeting the heavy amazing Power Shell users. We’re targeting people who are just starting and who want to build something great and their environment that not always someone who’s going to know how to use the help command even.

Chrissy: Absolutely

Carlos: I think you’ve described to me perfectly. What are the reasons I was so interested on having you guys on and talking a little bit about this. So if someone doesn’t need to know too much about Power Shell obviously, you said, SQL Server they can download your stuff. How do we get it started?

Chrissy: Ok, I’ll jump and answer this one. If you have a dbatools.io there’s going to be a download section that you’ll see at the top and what I did was I created the site thinking of my own favorite open source projects. So you have Notepad++ for example, when you go there what do you want to see? You want to see download, so I put the download there and I also didn’t want to burden people. What I like about Notepad++ is that I’ll just download a zip or an msi. I don’t want to mess with anything and so we have like 4 different methods for downloading DBA tools. The first one is like really direct. We have it in the Power Shell gallery for systems that do support the Power Shell gallery so just be install-module.dbatools. But if you don’t have a modern system then you can also just copy and paste a single command and as long as you have either SQL Server Management Studio 2008 and above installed or the SQL Management Objects (SMO), it’s just going to download, put it where it needs to go, extract it into the proper directory and then you’ll have it. So it’s a really straightforward download and that enables you to have over a 150 commands with a single command.

Carlos: Very cool and just to clarify because I’m not familiar with the Power Shell gallery this must require additional setup before you could use that route?

Chrissy: So the Power Shell gallery its built into Windows 10 and it allows you to kind  of like if you are familiar with Linux and apt-get and all of their package managers. This is Power Shells package manager and there’s a gallery where a whole bunch of software publishers have placed all of their stuff and it makes it easy to download. It’s kind of like a command line windows store so instead of being in the Windows store we’re in the Power Shell gallery. And if you have older systems then we have links on our website that you can just click to and you install a couple of things and then it will work that way. And the install is something that is really important to is because it is migration and we are expecting this to work on legacy systems. And so it works on Power Shell version 3 back all the way to Windows 7, so it works all the way you know from Windows 7 and above. And anytime that we have the next that comes out we test our commands on that and fortunately Microsoft has been really standardize in a way that they support SMO that our commands really just works with the next version of SQL Server.

Carlos: Right I think to their credit as much grief as we sometimes give to Microsoft that whole idea of backwards compatibility, it really does work nicely

Chrissy: I loved it! Totally!

Steve: So, on those legacy systems, one of the things you mentioned was the SQL Server Management Studio and the SMO objects, with that if you don’t have the right ones there and you trying to do the install is it going to tell you that? Or are you going to end up in a bad situation?

Chrissy: You know I actually, I can’t remember why I decided on SQL Server Management Studio 2008. I might have tried it with 2005 but basically it just going to throw the same errors that you have whenever you try to use SQL Server Management Studio because really DBA tools is kind of like SQL Server Management Studio at a command line.

Steve: Ok got it.

Carlos: And if you’re starting using 2005, do yourself a favor. Upgrade!

Chrissy: But you know which really awesome is that a lot of times people may not want to upgrade because they’re like, “Oh my God, this migration process is so daunting and I have this hundred point checklist.” And then if you just use Power Shell if it is possible in your environment then it really simplifies that entire process.

Rob: It certainly does and the important part of all of that is that that’s only in the client machine. The machine that’s running tools but you can have older versions as your servers but the client machine the one that you look onto to do your DBA work that’s one that needs to have the right version partial and the right version of Management Studio.

Chrissy: Absolutely. I actually did a test, if you go to dbatools.io/install, there’s a video there where I migrated, I backup a bunch of databases on Windows 2000 server that cannot have Power Shell installed on there and that was really to emphasize what Rob was saying which is Power Shell doesn’t even need to exist on the server. What’s really important is the client so that makes it a lot more simplified.

Constantine: Yeah, that’s more basically just running queries. It’s just abstracting a lot of SQL.

Chrissy: Yep

Rob: And if you look, if you run Profiler against the SQL Server when you are using Power Shell SMO to connect to it, all you see is T-SQL. It’s not doing anything magic.

Steve: So that video that you mentioned about migrating from SQL Server 2000, I watched that and I was just amaze on how easy it was to do, or how easy you made it look to run through all of that. You just run in the command and it move things over. So if someone’s out there and they are stuck with a SQL Server 2000 box and they want to move to something newer. How big of a jump can you make with that using the DBA tools to do that migration?

Chrissy: By default, we kind of go as max as possible I have a lab that setup that has 15, maybe 20, different kind of instances. So what they would have to do first, Microsoft does not even allow the path from 2000 to anything above 2008. So if you want to go 2016, that’s actually would be super simple. You would first migrate to 2008 and then migrate to 2016 from there, and of course you have to test your applications and everything like that. But we do make it possible in that way.

Steve: And have you seen that type of a jump, from 2000 to 2008 then to 2016? Have you seen that go off smoothly? Or do people usually have a lot of code migrations they have to deal with?

Chrissy: I would have to imagine that there would probably be a lot of code migrations. Unfortunately, I don’t get a ton of direct feedback about those legacy systems. It’s mostly just like, “Hey, thanks! That was super awesome.” But there wasn’t details like, “Uh, but we really had issues in our applications side”, because really no matter how you do it we kind of just automate the way that you’re going to do it anyway. You’re going to make a backup and then you’re going to restore it and then you’re going to make a back up and then you’re going to restore it. It’s just kind of makes that a lot more straightforward. Also what I really like is that we do introduce some protections. So, you know, if Microsoft doesn’t really recommend you do detach and attach from 2000 to 2008 then you have to use dash force command to say, “No, that’s really what I want to do”, even though Microsoft doesn’t really want me to do it.

Constantine: Yeah, and then a lot of cases there are pieces completely missing from database roles or server-level roles in SQL 2000 compared to SQL 2016. And so most of the times we do best-effort, what the equivalents are or we need to prompt the user and basically say we had an inflection point where you need to make a decision.

Carlos: Right, okay. So part of the process is as I watched one of those videos and go in through it. I just want to go try it out myself here but was the, you do the migration from like your 2012 to the vNext video I think I watched. And it just showed you run it, it does the backup, it does the restore, it moves the users, moves the jobs, moves the database mail configuration. But in doing that, one of the things that I was thinking through there is, in the demo of course it’s smaller databases and it goes really fast. But if you’re in the position where you have larger databases that are going to take a while to copy, are there any options or is there anything that would like do some transaction log backups and get it caught up to a point in time? Or is there an option to?

Chrissy: I loved that question. We’re working on it and that was something that I actually thought that I had to have for the 1.0 update. I was like I don’t even want to go 1.0 until we can go really Enterprise. And we actually decide that we had so many commands in this really awesome framework that’s going to come in 1.1 or 1.2. We are currently testing a mirror. I think it’s like invoke DBA Database Mirroring. You know, to make it easy to, I’m sorry it was the log shipping, to make it easier to do that, that is something that is on the agenda but currently we don’t support.

Steve: Okay. I think, well even without that it’s incredibly valuable.

Chrissy: Right because what you can also do is just, is do the -norecovery and that’ll really help simplify your process as well. And while we’re talking about this I did test instance sure. I have personally migrated 500GB databases but people have reported back that they’ve had 2TB databases that have worked with no issue so we do go really as high as possible.

Steve: Okay. Great I look forward to trying that out.

Carlos: So you’ve talked quite a bit about the migration piece and I guess maybe, I don’t know, Aaron if you’re still there we’ll invite you to join the conversation here. Give me an example of how you’re using the DBA tools aside from the migration component.

Aaron: So one of the things I loved about the DBA tools that I was able to get in just under the deadline for the cutoff for 1.0 was actually stole some code out of SMMS and it’s the code that goes in, if you right click on a database that do the report and you want to expand all option there to show off their were any auto growth or auto shrink events. I stole the code out there to find the auto growth events and the reason I did that was it’s great information but I want to be able to see the entire instance all at once. So what I did was just wrote a quick Power Shell function, and you know, started up my pull request to the DBA tools project, got it merged in and now everyone’s able to get this kind of information across the entire instance with a single command. And that only took me about an hour and a half of my time you know from start to finish. So if you want to take something that I needed, that I thought was useful for lots of people, and you know, add it to the project and now thousands upon thousands of people can use it.

Chrissy: Aaron brings up a really important part that I really love. My favorite thing about DBA tools, there’s a couple things. The first thing is that we see an awesome blog post, “Oh yeah that person make such a good point” and we take that T-SQL and we stick it into a command and now just across the board everyone can use it as soon as they update DBA tools. And the other thing is I, what Constantine had talked about earlier is that you know here’s a bunch of DBAs who have issues or problems and they solved it using Power Shell and then they can put it in DBA tools and now every DBA across the world can easily access the thing that they did. And that was something that Aaron shared with us so he had an issue, he solved it, and then he contributed it to the project.

Aaron: Well, other things I loved about DBA tools is when the SSRS team was putting out Power Shell commands for SSRS. They were doing it just kind of like script-based. And the fact that Chrissy going to all this effort and put together this public project gave us the standing to be able to say, “Hey look, we don’t think you’re doing it right and we think you should do it more like this.” And then they had a look at what Chrissy was recommending. And it took them a, you know day or two of deliberating but they finally came back and said, “You know, yep, that sounds right.” We’re going to do it like you suggest. And I had an article published in and SQL tips just last week on how to deploy the SQL Server, SQL performance dashboard from the Tiger team using only Power Shell. It will download the reports for you with the module, download the module for the SSRS commands, download the SQL file, deploy the reports, deploy the SQL file that you need to be able to get all these information on this performance matrix. And it’ll run across your entire Enterprise for you. One script then it does it all, and very excited to make it that much easier for people to use this free tools. Like the Tiger team spent this time getting it out there so that people could use it. And then we’ve just share, greatly upped the number of people who were able to download and used it. They actually told me the number I don’t think I’m supposed to share it but it’s a big number.

Carlos: So this is kind of where again you know my mind, the knuckle-dragging Neanderthal that I am. You know, I hear, “Power Shell bla bla bla. Oh one script it will do all of these.” “Oh okay. Now, all of a sudden I’m very very interested.” And you know, ultimately for me it’s lot about that value right instead of having to do these ten things right that I have to do before, yeah ability to have one script, one way to do it and execute it that, that’s really cool.

Constantine: Sure, so yeah what I basically wanted to bring up was talking a little bit more about that value because, and that reusability, because I have you know run many scripts within the community within the SQL Server community there’s the blitz scripts, there’s all these scripts, there’s all sort of pieces that are reproducible and reusable but there’s still a lot of code going on. And there’s always the question of what is that code quality? And so a lot of people use some sort of social currency to determine, “Oh everyone’s says all these scripts are good I can use that. It won’t destroy my environment. But I’m not going to necessarily review every line of code.” And when you see a project like this moving your old SQL server, it is really important to have that kind of currency because if everyone is doing it the same way, if everyone’s using that option SMMS, you can too. It is okay. And yeah that’s really why one of the big reasons I like DBA tool become popular is because we can kind of encode the best practices for the community and if they don’t think those are the best they can come back and help us fix them.

Chrissy: Absolutely.

Steve: So then with that process if someone decides to jump in and help you fix it and then they do the work, they do a pull request, do most of those type of things make it in to the project? Or do you end up weeding out a lot of those along the way based off of the code that you process?

Chirssy: It is very important to our team that people feel welcomed to DBA tools so if you go to dbatools.io/team it actually says “The team is me. The team is you. We really encourage pull requests.” So if somebody has, if they submit a pull request that doesn’t quite meet our standards what we will do is kindly mentor them and say and you know, I really emphasize like hey be nice to new people. And people, you know the team really jumps in and they are super nice and they’re like hey you could’ve done it this way. What about thinking about it from this perspective and you can go through any of our pull request and see that. So in addition to them being able to you know like submit the pull request they also get to learn along the way. And Constantine, it was so amazing working with them because like he had said, he hadn’t had a lot of experience with Power Shell and I did his code review for him. And he said that in one code review he had learned about two years’ worth of Power Shell knowledge.

Constantine: That’s not a joke either. I had spent you know, not directed effort but 2 years picking up random pieces of Power Shell and putting them into production even in some cases, and then sat down and Chrissy basically, in the most polite way, set me straight. And said “Here’s things you want to do and here’s why.” And I spent 2 weeks just reading the code she had given me versus the code I had submitted. And learned so much, it’s why I’m here today.

Carlos: Wow, that’s really spectacular because that’s not always the norm in the open source community or even in GitHub. And I think that the way, the way you’re doing that is spectacular.

Aaron: I promised you this is the best code ever used and that you will ever have. You come out and feeling good even though somebody like of ripped your code to bits, it would’ve been done in a way that says “Okay, that’s not how we do things we’ve learned along the way that there’s a better way of doing things or this is more perform well if you look at this. And we put examples of those up on, on the website as well but we’re very much about team and then community and family. It’s supposed to be fun. We’re doing this in our spare time so you don’t want to feel like you’re under a boss who is glaring at you with all this highness. It’s something that we pride ourselves on.

Chrissy: Yeah it’s very important that people feel welcome then any time that we have to close a pull request, if I had to guess, I think that we’re up to over 500 pull requests. And maybe 5 at most have been closed without being merged. That’s the part that hurts and it does you know like “Hey we actually have this command. It’s this one”. And so it is important to us that people do feel welcomed and that their codes gets merged in. We actually, anytime that we make a release, you’ll see it we added 4 new contributors to the repository. We want people to understand GitHub that we want people to understand Power Shell and we want them to feel like a part of the community and to not be you know a just because they don’t necessarily know Power Shell right away.

Chrissy: Oh nice. Very nice.

Aaron: And part of that as a team. Yeah we’ve got some people who know good Power Shell and we’ve got some amazing T-SQL and DBA people. But we also need people who can write documentation. We need people who can help with testing and continuous integration and all those other parts of it. So we we’re not just about writing some code, we’re about writing the good code for you. We were making sure that when it goes out there this is good as it can possibly be or from a community in our spare time project.

Steve: So as you mentioned the community and the spare time side of it. One thing that I see with the lot of projects like that is that they tend to wander a bit. But I’m curious with the DBA tools. Do you have a vision or a goal of where you see this going? Like a year from now or 2 years from now?

Chrissy: Yeah, I do. I would like it to be the standard in everyone’s toolkit. I would like hundreds of commands. We are currently at I think a 175. We’ve only announced about 150 because the process to make the webpages and everything like that it takes a little bit. But we are already setting the platform for being able to explore hundreds of commands. So with exchange, their module that came from Microsoft and SharePoint, their module that came from Microsoft, they have 700 commands. And currently I think the SQL Server module has a little less than 100. We are making it so that they’re very easy to find. There’s going to be a lot of tagging with categories through their website. But I do expect that this will be part of and I’ve been told but really kind people who are emailing me saying I’ve seen this become, it’s becoming a standard for DBAs. And that’s what I would really like because it does, it simplifies database administration and for me it makes it super exciting. It’s fun. I don’t have to like with test DBAs last backup. It’s no longer a burden to have to test my backups. It’s so fun to sit there and watch it work. It, you know it’ll perform a restore and then it will perform a verify and then it’ll make sure or sorry, checkDB or check table. It’ll make sure that everything works and then it’ll drop it and it just does all the work for you. And you sit there and you like man I enjoyed testing my backups.

Aaron: I’ve got a nice fuzzy feeling that everything is okay.

Chrissy: I can sleep at night. It’s true, it’s so nice.

Carlos: Without adding to my workload right and then I have to stay late at all.

Chrissy: Yeah you can automate this. I automate my SQL server migrations. I set that on a scheduled task and then I check it in the morning. It’s amazing.

Steve: Very interesting.

Carlos: I think I’m going to have to watch the first one.

Chrissy: Yeah you watch the first one, you watch the second one, the third one, you grab on a beer you like whatever. I’ll comeback. It worked to, a few times I’m cool with it. That’s where I’m at now.

Steve: Yep. It’s really interesting because you always hear about how the role of the SQL server DBA is changing over time. And about how people always need to learn more and keep up one the latest and build more into their toolset to be able to be more productive and not fall along way as things evolve. And it seems like the DBA tool set here would be a really good way of keeping up and keeping up your skills and continuing to grow as a DBA.

Chrissy: Absolutely and you, not only because of Power Shell but what’s really, what I really love about this is that it’s the whole DevOps process. For a while we were most of the DevOps process but we didn’t have testing and then Rob came in and like put in like a whole weekends worth of work and now we even have pester test running across the board on every single one of our commands. And so if you want to learn PowerShell, GitHub, and DevOps this is really an ideal project to work on.

Steve: Very nice.

Carlos: Very cool. Well we do appreciate the conversation. I know that we want to continue with some of the community things but should we go ahead and do SQL family now?

Chrissy: Sure.

Carlos: So Chrissy, tell us how you first got started with SQL server.

Chrissy: Alright. I actually wrote this out because I have a terrible memory and I was thinking back, it was actually a good time. So back in 1999, I worked as a startup as a Linux and Windows administrator but our DBA wasn’t super helpful. He got let go and the Dev team asked me to fill in and honestly I have always been curious about SQL server. You know when you go to the text section of the bookstore was always my favorite, and I’d always see SQL books. And I was like man oh, you know Oracle and then I installed Oracle I was like nah. But then I installed SQL server and that was really awesome. I loved that I have always been primarily administrator but I’ve also like development and that really SQL server serves both of those needs. So I picked it up I loved it and I became a web developer and DBA for the startup and then I went from there.

Steve: Great. So if you could change one thing about SQL server, what would it be?

Chrissy: What would your guess that I would like to see more about with SQL server?

Carlos: I’d say Power Shell command.

Chrissy: Yeah, absolutely. I would actually love to see more Power Shell commands from Microsoft. I would like to see the module opensourced and put up on both GitHub and the Power Shell gallery. And in addition I would also like the SQL Server Management Studio, their grid little thing, it’s not nearly as powerful as PowerShell’s Out Grid view which allows not only sorting but filtering in so many ways. I would really like to see that brought into SQL Server Management Studio.

Carlos: Interesting. We’re actually going to have a conversation with the program manager of the SQL Server Management Studio so have to make sure he pass that along.

Steve: And I would agree that whole grid results set in the Management Studio is very limited.

Aaron: If you can imagine the question, do we have x in this table and your table is 30 columns wide. You, you do that query and put that entire grid here. You can type in and you’ll get your answer in seconds.

Chrissy: Not just the column but the yeah the data as well. It’s incredible.

Aaron: So within a 30 column wide or 50 column wide table and you need to you know, you’re asked it’s is this data released, you know. I’ve got email addresses in for example. You could search, find hundreds or search hundreds or thousands of rows in a single table just for the data in it in Out Grid view because it’s so quick.

Carlos: What’s the best piece of career advice you’ve ever received?

Chrissy: Back in the dot com. At that startup that I had previously mentioned, our CEO, he had 2 doctorates in engineering. I think it was like Mechanical Engineering and Computer Engineering from an Ivy League school. He didn’t mind us call him doctor, he was super awesome. He told me to drop out of college because he said this is the dot com and this will never happen again. So if you drop out now and you gained experience whenever this busts and it will, you will be able to get a job. And so I talked to my parents about it they weren’t excited and then I talked to him about it and I was like I don’t know. And he said, “How much do you think that you would make if you drop out, sorry, but once you graduated?” And so I told him and he said, “Okay, I’ll give you that.” And I was like, “Alright, bye.” And so I am, so I dropped out of school and then I went back years later when I could afford it. I got my Bachelors at the University of San Francisco and then after that I still because I knew that I could hold a full time job and go to school. I enrolled in my Masters program and I’m currently 3 classes away from getting my Masters. So that was actually my best career advice ever was to drop out and then go back whenever really whenever school suited me.

Carlos: Very cool.

Steve: Okay. So if you could have one superhero power, what would it be and why would you want it?

Chrissy: Alright, so my superhero power would be regeneration. And the reason I want it is because I’m a hypochondriac and I’m always worrying about getting some disease or getting to an accident. And if I had regeneration powers then I wouldn’t have to worry about that anymore because it would just fix itself.

Steve: Nice.

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